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Saturday IRA

January 5th, 2025 at 12:32 am

Anybody else trying to figure out their 2025 IRA strategies on a Saturday night?  Well, maybe this crowd would, but I admit this isn't something I would be normally doing.

And yet, here I am, with an open question for anyone who is reading:

I am considering using money from my Traditional IRA to contribute to my annual Roth IRA, starting this year.  The reason why is because money continues to be tight as I enter year 2 of my hope-it-will-continue-to-hold early retirement, and I would like to eventually close my Traditional IRA some day anyways, to avoid the eventual RMD.

I should also note that I have roughly 20 years to get this transition done, so it's not like I'm in a rush, but this seems like as good a year as any to get started, right?  What do you guys think?  My current contribution limit is $8k, so I believe that will not impact me greatly on the tax front, since I am no longer actively working anyways.

13 Responses to “Saturday IRA”

  1. Dido Says:
    1736045485

    Tabs, if you do a "Roth conversion" from your Traditional IRA to your Roth IRA rather than doing a Roth CONTRIBUTION, you do not need to worry about the annual contribution limit. If you are not working, you can't make contributions in any case--you can only contribute up to the higher of your annual earnings or the contribution limit, so if your annual earnings are $0, you can't contribute anything.

    Instead, figure out how much you can CONVERT by looking at what your current tax bracket is expected to be for 2025 and then convert around up to the top of that bracket. Use tax software because there are a lot of "tax torpedoes" that can have unexpected tax consequences that you are unlikely to catch by eyeballing it, and leave a margin for error since there are always unpredictable income events. If you have a lot of investments in a *taxable* individual brokerage account, this is especially likely as mutual funds may make capital gains distributions to shareholders, particularly in December, which can't be predicted before October or so. If you look at the December 2024 statement from your taxable brokerage account and turn to the supplementary information, it should indicate which funds if any made capital gains distributions. Funds that make them one year are likely to do so the next, but the amounts can vary considerably from year to year.

    We often make an early in the year Roth conversion estimate and then update it later in the year and consider a second conversion around November or so, or in case of a big market drop.

  2. Dido Says:
    1736045745

    Also, at the moment, we KNOW what the tax brackets are for 2025--the same lower brackets that went into effect under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. But those brackets are set to "sunset" on 12/31/2025 unless Congress opts to extend them. With the Republican "trifecta," this is likely, but not guaranteed--we know that there will be a tax bill coming later this year, but margins in the two legislative bodies are close, and we don't know yet what tradeoffs may be made. Also, if the House and the Senate can't agree, which is more possible with close margins, then the law will sunset back to the 2017 brackets and if you are currently in the 12% bracket, it will go back to 15%, or in the 22% bracket, back to 24%, etc.

    That also argues for doing a Roth conversion this year.

  3. Tabs Says:
    1736046354

    Thank you for the detailed responses, Dido! I'm reading up on Roth conversions as we speak.

  4. rob62521 Says:
    1736112027

    I'm not as smart as Dido and cannot offer as good as advice, but I did look into doing this. I am retired. My DH is working part time. However, my financial advisor said since we are on the border of a possibly being a higher tax bracket, he said it would not do me any good to move money from traditional to my Roth. Hopefully your reading and Dido's fine advice is giving you the info you need.

  5. Tabs Says:
    1736112617

    Thank you for your response, Rob. Your comment also helped me as well, and not converting would literally be the easiest option of all if that turns out to be the best course of action.

    Independently, I also learned that conversions could also potentially increase tax premiums on social programs like Medicare and Social Security. Therefore, ideally, I should take care of this business before I reach that point.

  6. Dido Says:
    1736296883

    The general rule of thumb is to do conversions when you expect your tax bracket in retirement, post-RMD, to be significantly higher than your tax bracket today. If you are in the 12% bracket but would expect to be in the 22% bracket post-RMD (which well may be back to being the 25% bracket), it makes sense to convert, since with all good luck you will have 15 or 20 years or more at that higher bracket.

    Yes, you do need to watch out for impacts on Medicare and Social Security--those are two of the "tax torpedoes" I mentioned. However, note that Medicare has a two-year look-back, so any conversion now would affect your 2026 Medicare premiums if you are on Medicare by then. If you will be younger than 63 by the end of the year, you don't need to worry about the increased Medicare premiums (known as IRMAA, income-related Medicare Adjustment Amount). And even then, moving from the base Medicare tier at $185/month for Part B to Tier II at $259/month is a total increase of $888 for the year (plus an additional increase for Part D premiums, but still only around a thousand total increase). Then it depends on what your overall income and assets are as to whether that matters. Most of my clients have 2 to 5 million in their portfolios and find that the long-term potential tax benefits are worth the short-term tax hit. YMMV, as they say.

  7. LivingAlmostLarge Says:
    1736542792

    Are you retired?

  8. Tabs Says:
    1736543081

    LAL: Yes, and hoping that everything works out to remain that way. I am about 50 years old, and it's always been my dream to retire by now. Last year was the first year of this retirement of mine.

  9. Dido Says:
    1736611219

    Tabs, wow, you're very young to be retired. That gives you around 25 years until you hit your age for Required Minimum Distributions at 75 (assuming no further changes in RMD ages).

    So for now, you have absolutely NO worries about effects on IRMAA--that kicks in when you are 63 because of the two-year look-back. You could convert up to the top of the 12% (or even 22% tax bracket, but probably not necessary), pay the taxes early, and, depending on the amount of your tax-deferred assets, you could get those down low and get almost everything into Roth accounts and not have to worry about RMDs at all on your own accounts (if you end up inheriting a Roth account, you will be subject to the 10-year rule, but still, no tax).

    It's not necessary to get the tax-deferred down to zero--remember, there's going to be a standard deduction. You want to get your taxable income (interest and dividends, plus if you end up having any self-employment income) down to about the size of your standard deduction, so that your taxable income is around zero (and not a negative number--when your taxable income is a negative number, you've not been optimally efficient). Assuming that the taxation of capital gains remains the same, you don't need to worry about those until your taxable income hits $48,350 in 2025; then long-term gains are taxed at 15%.

  10. Dido Says:
    1736611693

    If you are on ACA (the health care marketplace) and taking advantage of the subsidies, that can limit the amount you would want to do in Roth conversions. Your comment on Patient Saver's post reminded me of that. If you have health insurance through a former employer, then no worries.

  11. Tabs Says:
    1736647687

    Wow thank you Dido! You have given me more insight than I know what to do with, and all for the low low price of FREE haha.

    I just want to clarify that my retirement is more like a life wish and an earnest attempt more than a guarantee if you know what mean. There is always a possibility that things might not work out, or who knows maybe I get bored of it, and end up returning to work. For now though, I'm just going to take it one baby step month at a time.

  12. Dido Says:
    1737153467

    Whether it works out or not, it must be nice to have a trial run. At 64, I don't have that luxury!

  13. LivingAlmostLarge Says:
    1737661021

    This is why i tell people are you sure you want to do roth at higher brackets than 24%?

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